TAT: to my family and my irish roots

gusodw · **Joined:** Thu 27 Oct 2011 8:53 pm **Posts:** 4

hi,
my name is Gustavo and I'm Brazilian. My grandfather's grandfather was Irish, though, and till today we keep the family name (O'Dwyer) and try to stay in touch with some celtic and irish culture.
So I decided to have tattooed something to symbolize my origins, my love to my family and to the beautiful celtic culture. The phrase I decided to tattoo is "Virtue is the only Nobility" (from latin "Virtus Sola Nobilitas"), that is the familly blason of arms motto; but i would like it to be in gaellic so it would be more trully closer to my origins. The tranlation i got so far is "Tá de bhua an uaisle amháin", but i have no idea if it is correct because a got it from google :P, so if you could please tranlate it to me correctly i would be very grateful.

I thank you all for your attention and forgive me any gramatical or ortographic errors in my request.
anxiously waiting for your replies, thank you.
Gustavo Lima O'Dwyer

kokoshneta · **Joined:** Wed 07 Sep 2011 5:05 pm **Posts:** 422

Bem vindo no foro, Gustavo.

The translation Google gave you is not correct at all. It means something like “by virtue the nobility only”—typical Google Translate nonsense.

Is í an suáilce an t-aon uaisle is an option … I can’t really think of a briefer and pithier way of saying it.

Breandán · **Posted:** Thu 27 Oct 2011 9:46 pm

Hi, Gustavo. Welcome to the forum. Lovely to hear your family history. It is amazing how far and wide the Irish have been dispersed and yet there is always a link back to their place of origin.

For your translation, here's a first attempt, modeled on a proverb:

Ní uaisleacht go suáilce
Something like "Nobility cannot be achieved without first having virtue"

Await further input ...

(And kk has beaten me to the pole position :LOL:

)

kokoshneta · **Joined:** Wed 07 Sep 2011 5:05 pm **Posts:** 422

Breandán wrote:

For your translation, here's a first attempt, modeled on a proverb:

Ní uaisleacht go suáilce
Something like "Nobility cannot be achieved without first having virtue"

I thought about that—but it seems more to indicate that virtue is the best nobility, more than that it’s the only form of nobility in existence. Though I suppose it can be understood in the sense that there is no nobility at all without virtue, too. It is a much nicer construction, certainly. And I agree that uaisleacht is probably better suited here than uaisle, though they’re not that easy to tell apart.

I think we’ve had this on here before, but would ní in this type of expression not usually prefix an h to a vowel? Ní huaisleacht go suáilce?

Breandán · **Posted:** Thu 27 Oct 2011 11:01 pm

kokoshneta wrote:

I think we’ve had this on here before, but would ní in this type of expression not usually prefix an h to a vowel? Ní huaisleacht go suáilce?

I don't think it does, actually. FGB says:

Quote:

ní prefixes h to prons. é, í, iad, ea, and to adjectives and certain nouns beginning with a vowel.

Ní uaisleacht go suáilce

pennyrat · **Joined:** Tue 30 Aug 2011 1:50 am **Posts:** 122

I'm certainly not confirming, but I like the appearance of Breandán's. It has the look of being proverb-ish.. short and sweet.

kokoshneta · **Joined:** Wed 07 Sep 2011 5:05 pm **Posts:** 422

Breandán wrote:

I don't think it does, actually. FGB says:

Quote:

ní prefixes h to prons. é, í, iad, ea, and to adjectives and certain nouns beginning with a vowel.

Note the “and certain nouns beginning with a vowel”. As far as I know, there’s no particularly hard and fast rule for when this h appears before nouns, but since there are a couple of other ní X go hY expressions where ní does prefix an h (e.g., ní heolas go haontíos), and (to my knowledge) none where it doesn’t, I think this structure is one where you’d normally expect it.

Breandán · **Posted:** Fri 28 Oct 2011 9:51 am

kokoshneta wrote:

Breandán wrote:

I don't think it does, actually. FGB says:

Quote:

ní prefixes h to prons. é, í, iad, ea, and to adjectives and certain nouns beginning with a vowel.

Note the “and certain nouns beginning with a vowel”. As far as I know, there’s no particularly hard and fast rule for when this h appears before nouns, but since there are a couple of other ní X go hY expressions where ní does prefix an h (e.g., ní heolas go haontíos), and (to my knowledge) none where it doesn’t, I think this structure is one where you’d normally expect it.

Well, I would interpret "certain nouns beginning with a vowel" to mean "a few but not all". Eolas is a very common noun used frequently in everyday life and there are plenty of idioms using it and related forms such as eol, ní heol, but uaisleacht is much less frequently used.

Examples in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí that support not adding a vowel: ní aithne go haontíos; ní amadán go dtí é.

kokoshneta · **Joined:** Wed 07 Sep 2011 5:05 pm **Posts:** 422

Breandán wrote:

Examples in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí that support not adding a vowel: ní aithne go haontíos; ní amadán go dtí é.

Hm. I never heard ní aithne go haontíos without the h (though I have heard and seen it with the h several times).

And also from na Bráithre: ní hamadán mise agat …

I suppose in the end, with non-set phrases, this particular h is optional and elusive enough that you can add it if it sounds more natural to you, or leave it out if that sounds more natural.

Breandán · **Posted:** Fri 28 Oct 2011 11:04 am

kokoshneta wrote:

I suppose in the end, with non-set phrases, this particular h is optional and elusive enough that you can add it if it sounds more natural to you, or leave it out if that sounds more natural.

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