Here's a couple of recordings I made talking to a boy about 11 years old. I was trying to
get some things straight and I'm sorry my blabbing is so distracting. I only made them for
my own use, but I think they would be helpful to others interested in Ulster Irish. He is a native Ulster
speaker. It is interesting hearing him talk about "the old Irish" and some of the words that
were used before long ago. ("before" probably means that his grandparents still use them).

http://www.irishlearner.awyr.com/membrf ... in%203.MP3
http://www.irishlearner.awyr.com/membrf ... in%204.MP3

Please do not post them on the web outside this forum. Thanks, Féabar Mac

That's lovely, Faber. Thanks for posting them. Great to hear a new generation of native speakers coming along.

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Nice.
However I'd say his Irish is a bit influenced by school Irish. I don't think you'd say "an ndearna tú" or "an ndeachaigh tú" in Ulster. But he says "ar úrt tú", "gur úrt tú" normally. There are some strange things that are either very recent local evolutions, or mistakes caused by school or because one makes more mistakes when one is asked to translate stuff than when talking naturally (eg. gur chonaic, ar fhaca, an gheobhaidh, gur chuaigh).

Btw, "did you forget it" is "an ndearna tú dearmad air" in Standard Irish and "a' dtearr tú dearmad air" (or "a' dtearn tú dearmad air") in Ulster Irish, ie. "did you do forgetfulness on it" (or something like that).
Will you get? is "an bhfuighidh tú", pronounced "(uh) wee too".
The word that is "Old Irish" for "door", that he says, is "comhla", but he pronounces it as "comhairle", I don't know why (maybe he has mixed-up these 2 words together because he doesn't use "comhla" himself but he does know "comhairle" which sounds a bit like it).

Anyway, nice to hear the lovely Donegal accent :-) Char chualaidh mé le tamalt é, ar an drochuair.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Thanks for the comments Lughaidh! It also gives you a glimpse into what I tried to accomplish in my 3 weeks there. Would you be so kind as to list the Ulster form for me for the following (if it is different):

An ndeir tú rud eigin?
An ndúirt tú rud eigin?
An ndearfaidh tú rud eigin?

An ndéannan tú rud eigin?
An ndéarna tú rud eigin?
An ndéanfaidh tú rud eigin?

An dtéann tú abhaile?
An ndeachaigh tu abhaile?
An rachaidh tú abhaile?

An bhfaigheann tú airgead?
An bhfuair tú airgead?
An bhfaighidh tú airgead?

An bhfeiceann tú rud eigin?
An bhfaca tú rud eigin?
An bhfeicfidh tú rud eigin?

An bhfuil tú ann?
An raibh (pr: roe ) tú ann?
An mbeidh tú ann?

I think the kid got nervous wondering whether he should tell me in "school/new Irish" or the way his "granny" says it. He was quiet and patient and what a blessing to just get to hear him! It was like finding a gold mine. I need you to give me the correct forms because he was so young he was probably just getting it all figured out in his own head and I don't trust completely what he told me. I never heard him speak to his parents or grandparents in English one time during the two weeks in their home. It was awesome!

I hope they don't teach caighdeanach in Donegal schools. It would be awful corrupting those kids natural Irish.

I didn't like Irish as a subject at school. Which explains why I'm so bad at spelling and grammar today. That Caighdeanach was like a foriegn language to me. And it has influenced my own native Irish too much.

_________________
___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
___________________________________________________________

An ndeir tú rud in(t)eacht / an ndeireann tú / an abrann tú
Ar úrt tú
An ndéarfaidh tú / an abróchaidh tú



An ndéanann tú / an ndéan tú
An dtearr tú / An dtearn tú
An ndéanfaidh tú



An dtéann tú 'n a' bhaile / an dtéid tú 'n a' bhaile? ('n a' = chun an)
An dteachaigh tú
An rachaidh tú



An bhfaghann tú /wæːn tu/
An bhfuair tú
An bhfuighidh tú /wiː tu/



An bhfeiceann tú
An bhfacaidh tú
An bhfeicfidh tú



An bhfuil tú
An rabh tú [ro]
An mbeidh tú

The other forms (independent) change more (and are older than the standard forms, that are basically the Connemara forms, which are more recent and simplified). In Ulster you have, for instance: I see = tchíom, I'll see = tchífidh mé, I did = rinn mé, I'll do = ghéanfaidh mé, I do = ghníom...





Of course they do. I knew a little girl (granddaughter of "bean an toí", when we spent 2 weeks for a Gaeltacht course in Gort a' Choirce) and she told us she had difficulty with Irish at school. And she was fluent in Gort a' Choirce Irish. So...



Yeah, in the Gaeltachtaí they should teach the local dialect, so that the native speakers are able to write what they use in speech and are proud of their own dialect. Teaching them something else may persuade the parents not to talk Irish to their children. This contributes to kill the language.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Don’t forget this one when mentioning independent forms:

Gheibh(eann) tú [ˈjɛv(ən) tʊ] (but previously also often just [ˈjɛːn tʊ] or [ˈjiː tʊ], though I don’t think there are many left who say the former, and the latter is definitely quite dead)


I’ve wondered this before, but is there any particular reason you write this ghéanfaidh instead of just dhéanfaidh? I’ve heard even older native Gweedorers use the unlenited form déanfaidh (or deánfaidh for some speakers), but I’ve never heard anyone use géanfaidh …



They’ll have to devise a standard for writing each dialect, then. As it is now, with everyone just spelling how they feel like spelling when they write dialect, that would confuse the children just as much as having to write in an orthography that doesn’t correspond to their own dialect. This is exactly what happens in Norway.

_________________
Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.

The quality of the recording is great, really clear. He sounds like a lovely young fella. It was a great idea - asking your questions and recording him so that you could listen to it over again later. Thanks for sharing it, Faberm.

_________________

They don't have to devise anything. Follow the spelling of "Learning Irish" in Connamara.
I'm sure other dialects have their own corresponding books.
It's not like there are hundreds or even dozens of dialects like there would be in some other languages.
In Irish there are only 3.
In Welsh you have to pick either North or South Welsh before you start learning.

_________________
___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
___________________________________________________________

Ghéanfaidh is the historical future (see gh-n in "ghníom" too). There would be no reason to write "dhéanfaidh" historically (there's no reason to lenite a d-). The historical form is "do-ghéanfaidh", and that's why the first sound is /j/. Déanfaidh is a regularised form, more recent.



that's normal, it doesn't exist.





There's no need to devise a standard for each dialect... since they already exist. The standards of the 3 dialects were used in writing until the CO was created. You just need to simplify spellings in these 3 old standards (eg. -ughadh > -ú) as they did in the CO, but you need to do it properly, according to these dialects. That's the way I write :-)
You can make minor changes in each local dialect too but the Irish spelling is so consistent, in general, that you don't need to change it a lot.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne