Two things I would like you to consider as a linguist:

Firstly, if you were going to "update" the English in Shakespeare or Chaucer, would you translate the original into French or Swahili and then ask an English speaker to translate it back to English for you? This is somewhat parallel to your original plan.

Secondly, would you consider asking a native speaker of Chinese to do the translation back to English? Hint: the Chinese speaker would do a better job than Google. For instance, the verb bí cannot be used in place of the copula in modern Irish.

I think rather than generate more noise, we should work from the original Irish and try to update it directly. While your previous English translation will be useful for deciphering spelling and vocabulary from the Old Irish, Google will just get in the way.

No doubt some words will have changed in meaning, but mostly there is no need to use a completely different word if the modern equivalent still retains most of the same meaning, correct? Our final test might be to work on the translation without looking at the original and tweaking some of the expressions. Rather than recasting the whole thing through the mind of an English speaker.

Just a thought.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Thanks for those thoughts,

Just a couple of my own here:

First, I know the relationship between the Irish in this poem and modern Irish is analogous to that of the Old English in Beowulf and Modern English. Perhaps a slight bit more of similarity. Nevertheless, I know as an English speaker and as one who has looked at Old English literature that meaning and sounds change greatly over time-- to the point of impossible obscurity. It makes it even harder for an English speaker to interpret since that speaker will project modern meanings back onto ancient forms. Thus, I think the English translation is the best way to determine the meaning (though perhaps the form could be made to match better with the original by comparing).

Secondly, I am very aware that google gets it wrong, but my goal in not to get a poetic update (not trying to make a Shakespearian work of art ) but rather a fairly literal translation into modern Irish. It was just meant as a base for starting discussion and refinement.

Third, since you have brought up the issue of the copula, lets get talking ! What is the imperative (command/request) form of the copula? How would such a question be worded?

Josh

Damn, I meant to edit that out.

I think your best bet will be a combination of people like kk who have a knowledge of historical Irish and native speakers who can summon up the most modern idioms. I'm only the janitor.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Too funny! Thanks though, I will await the experts!

Well, it's quite long but I'll have a crack at the first half anyhow. I see Breandán has already given you the Google Translate lecture so I'll spare you that.


Gura tú m'aisling,
a Choimhde chroí:
ní ní aon neach eile
ach Rí na seacht neamh.


Gura tú mo mhachnamh
de ló is d'oíche;
gura tusa a fheice mé
i mo chodladh choíche.


Gura tú mo labhra,
gura tú no thuiscint;
go raibh tusa domsa,
go raibh mise duitse.


Gura tusa m'athair
gura mé do mhacsa;
go raibh tusa liomsa,
go raibh mise leatsa.


Gura tú mo sciath chatha,
gura tú mo chlaíomh;
gura tusa m'onóir,
gura tusa m'oirearcas.


Gura tú mo dhídean,
gura tú mo dhaingean;
go raibh tú do mo thógáil
in aontacht na n-aingeal.

Gura tú gach maitheas
do mo chorp, do m'anam;
gura tú mo fhlaitheas
ar neamh is ar an talamh.


Gura tusa amháin
sainsearc mo chroí;
Nára ní aon neach eile
ach ard-Rí neimhe.

The biggest changes aside from spelling are (1) copular grammar (rob/rop has changed to gura or go raibh, depending on the syntax of what comes after); (2) the introduction of certain definite articles (e.g. Rí na seacht neamh, 'king of the seven heavens') which would have been viewed as a peculiar interpolation in the 10th century; and of course (3) the breakdown of the Old Irish agglutinative verb structure (e.g. 'ad-chear' and 'nom-thocba').

There are also certain words which simply don't carry the same meaning any more after ten centuries of semantic drift (e.g. 'baile' in the very first line - cognate to Modern Irish 'buile' ('madness') but the latter has completely lost the sense of 'vision') and phrases where the noun is recognizable but idiomatically requires a different preposition these days (e.g. 'de ló is d'oíche' rather than 'i ló is in oíche')

C. Uí Loideáin, this is excellent!

This is exactly what Im looking for! My project will involve comparing such things as the cognates ('baile' to 'buile') and comparing the shift from syntactic typology (e.g. agglutinative to isolating or fusional) and so forth!

Any chance the of getting the rest of the 16 verses?

Also, anyone else want to give any commentary or suggestions on the naturalness and semantic correlation of C. Uí Loideáin's translation?

Thanks guys, this is looking very promising!

P.S. to all... I'm REALLY sorry about the google translate post! I would delete it if I could. It has put me in a bad light as a linguist My only excuse is that I was stressed out about getting the data for my project, that I would not be able to get the data anywhere. But I thank you for your patience... this is my first time on the forum.

I assure you as well, everyone who helps out with the creation and refinement of this translation will be fully acknowledged (by name if desired) in my paper and presentation.

thanks again everyone.

Josh, you just passed out of the "Newly registered user status" into "Registered user status" by making your tenth post.

You can now go back and edit some of your posts, although there may be a time limit on how far back you can go.

Breandán

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Great post, lovely translation.

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Ó dá ligfeadh sí liú amháin gaile, liú catha...

Ceartaigí libh

Yes, indeed.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).