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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 24 Oct 2011 1:03 am 
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One that annoys me is "a couple minutes", "a couple options", without "of", which only occurs in a few subdialects in the States. Outside those dialects everyone says "a couple of minutes", "a couple of options".

Someone tried to make a tentative connection to the Irish cúpla but that takes the singular, not the plural. My bet is that it came from German ein Paar Minuten, etc.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 24 Oct 2011 7:49 am 
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Yes I have always thought that 'a couple minutes' was incomplete. I recently discussed that particular one with a Californian, who also says 'a couple of minutes', so I concluded that the two versions are used.


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 24 Oct 2011 9:22 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Someone tried to make a tentative connection to the Irish cúpla but that takes the singular, not the plural. My bet is that it came from German ein Paar Minuten, etc.

I don’t think that one comes from any foreign influence, really. It’s becoming more and more common (in writing, I mean), and it’s also starting to crop up more and more among people not from the States (I’m forever Internet-poking a British friend for it lately)—I’d say it’s simply just the ‘of’ being dropped out in rapid speech. Especially in American English, the extra [ə] sound can easily become quite ambiguous (is it there or not?) after a syllabic l.

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Yeah, I've often noticed that difference between American English and Hiberno-English regarding 'would'. In English, I say: 'If I won lots of money, I'd be happy'. (Some?) Americans say 'If I would win ...' - or at least I've heard something similar.

The American way is more logical really, but I'm not likely to start using that version soon, as it would sound completely unnatural coming from me.

Why do you think the American way is more logical? The conditional is primarily used to describe what would happen, if some given condition or other were to be fulfilled—extending its use to also including the phrase where the condition is given isn’t really more logical than just using the past.

Personally, I’m a big fan of the past subjunctive in these phrases, and I wish it weren’t restricted to just the one puny little verb, ubiquitous though it may be. It always breaks my heart to hear otherwise very conservative and careful speakers of dialects where the subjunctive is supposedly still alive using the past indicative in irreal protases. :(

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Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 24 Oct 2011 11:35 pm 
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kokoshneta wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Someone tried to make a tentative connection to the Irish cúpla but that takes the singular, not the plural. My bet is that it came from German ein Paar Minuten, etc.
I don’t think that one comes from any foreign influence, really. It’s becoming more and more common (in writing, I mean), and it’s also starting to crop up more and more among people not from the States (I’m forever Internet-poking a British friend for it lately)—I’d say it’s simply just the ‘of’ being dropped out in rapid speech. Especially in American English, the extra [ə] sound can easily become quite ambiguous (is it there or not?) after a syllabic l.

No, this isn't a usage arising from sloppy speech or syllable dropping, it is used by people who are otherwise very careful in their speech and writings. Its subsequent adoption by non-Americans is just part of the general encroachment of American into wider English amongst young people.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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