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 Post subject: rolling r's
PostPosted: Tue 08 Nov 2011 8:01 pm 
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im having real difficulty rolling R's like in ramhar i pronounce the r like a English r. Just wondering if any body has any tips or tricks to help get the pronunciation correct ?


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 Post subject: Re: rolling r's
PostPosted: Tue 08 Nov 2011 8:14 pm 
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For the broad r, flap or "tap" your tongue against the alveolar ridge. That's the bump behind your front teeth. It's where you touch your tongue on the roof of your mouth to make a d sound.

Try saying "udda" and then lighten the tap slightly to make it sound ara with a Scottish sounding r.

Technically "rolling" is multiple flaps. Irish and Scottish r has only one tap/flap.

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: rolling r's
PostPosted: Tue 08 Nov 2011 11:13 pm 
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Quote:
Technically "rolling" is multiple flaps. Irish and Scottish r has only one tap/flap.


It depends... In traditional Irish, you may use several taps in some cases: unlenited initial r, rr, rn, rl... Now in general, people tend to pronounce it with one tap. But it doesn't mean that all Irish r's have only one tap everytime.
Same thing with Scottish Gaelic.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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 Post subject: Re: rolling r's
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2011 12:34 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
Technically "rolling" is multiple flaps. Irish and Scottish r has only one tap/flap.


It depends... In traditional Irish, you may use several taps in some cases: unlenited initial r, rr, rn, rl... Now in general, people tend to pronounce it with one tap. But it doesn't mean that all Irish r's have only one tap everytime.
Same thing with Scottish Gaelic.

:facepalm: Yes, you are right, of course. I should have said "Irish and Scottish r usually has only one tap/flap." (except in those special cases you mentioned) As you say, it is more often tapped than rolled but not exclusively so. :yes:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: rolling r's
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2011 1:44 am 
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Breandán wrote:
Yes, you are right, of course. I should have said "Irish and Scottish r usually has only one tap/flap." (except in those special cases you mentioned) As you say, it is more often tapped than rolled but not exclusively so.


I'm glad I'm not learning Irish. :LOL:

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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 Post subject: Re: rolling r's
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2011 1:51 am 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
I'm glad I'm not learning Irish. :LOL:

Except for the spelling. ;)

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: rolling r's
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2011 1:21 pm 
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The rolled r is a gorgeous sound, too bad you sound strange if you overuse it when speaking Irish. :)

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: rolling r's
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2011 2:26 pm 
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What is the rolled r? I know there used to be four Rs, I remember reading that somewhere, is rolled R one of them?
I know in Munster it tends to appear instead of tapped broad r when some people say certain words like cara. When
would you expect a rolled r to occur?


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 Post subject: Re: rolling r's
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2011 2:57 pm 
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There were four r's in Old Irish but now there are two or three in Modern Irish:

/R/ is rolled (trilled, ie. as in Italian) and broad -- mainly used in older speakers' speech (and not always) in the cases I said, ie. initial unlenited r, and rr, rl, rn...
/r/ one tap, broad
/r'/ slender -- that sound that exist only in a few languages

(the /R'/ has disappeared and we're not sure what it sounded like).

Of course, none of these sounds exist in "standard" English.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: rolling r's
PostPosted: Thu 10 Nov 2011 7:13 pm 
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Location: Navasota, Texas USA
I worked with my Irish teacher (native speaker) all last year to help her perfect her Spanish. She never could get the Spanish
rolled "r" down. She could sort of do the single hit, but not the multiple version. Lughaidh, if you love the sound of those rolled "r"s then just say, "Tan rapido corre el ferrocarrill" It's all in there.

When we were kids and used to play "army" we would make machine gun sounds with our tongues beating on the roofs or our mouths. I told her just to do that. I asked, "Didn't you ever make a machine gun noise with your mouth when you were a kid?". She laughed and said no.....she had never done that. I guess that's part of the difference of growing up in Texas versus Ireland.

I default into using those type "r"s when I speak Irish and I've wondered if that's okay. I didn't hear that much of that in Donegal in the summer, but when I tone it down it has a nice Irish sound to it. I often hear students just speak Irish with an English "r" and it sounds very "gringo" to me. Bríd.....you are more lucky than you can imagine not having had to have learned Irish.

I wish I could have done it that way as well,
Ag obair liom :computer:
Féabar Mac (faberm)


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