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 Post subject: Ainm
PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2012 11:14 am 
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Joined: Mon 05 Sep 2011 10:43 am
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Location: BÁC, Éire
As you can see my name is Somhairle and I pronounce is Sore-leh (very roughly!) as in rhyming with Comhairle, as has everyone one i've ever met with a degree of Irish, but a native Irish speaker phoned me up today and called me SAOR-le (he has seen my name written in Emails so it's not like he's misheard me or something), he said it as in you go to say Saoirse, but instead of the 'se' at the end a 'le'. Even after I corrected him, he said it again later in the convo and it got me thinking, is that an alternative pronunciation? or is it just a mispronunciation? I'd of said mispronunciation but I am not a native speaker (or even just a speaker!) so I really don't know, it also reminded me of when I first met my fiance (shes not an Irish speaker) she kept calling me SAOR-le, and I kept correcting her but perhaps she just had a different pronunciation like your man? I'll feel bad if I corrected her for no good reason!

being a rare name I don't hear it pronounced very often except in reference to myself so I haven't got any reference points for alternative's,

Thanks

Somhairle


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 Post subject: Re: Ainm
PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2012 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
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My guess is that he isn't a native speaker... Many people in Ireland claim they are native speakers because in Ireland, Irish is called "the native language of Ireland", so many people say "Irish in my native language" even when they don't know a word of it, of when they know very few things about it. And some tell you you are wrong even when you are fluent while they just know a couple of words...

Somhairle is like "comhairle" but with an s.

/so:rL'ə/, ie. [ˈso͂ː rʎɪ] ie. sore-lyeh, very roughly (or sore-luh, very roughly, in Munster since they don't have the ly-sound). Might be "soor-lyeh" in Connemara (omh is often "oo" in Connemara)

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 Post subject: Re: Ainm
PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2012 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon 05 Sep 2011 1:45 am
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In An Sloinnteoir Gaeilge's An tAinmneoir it gives the English of it as Sorley so I would say your pronunciation is correct .


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 Post subject: Re: Ainm
PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2012 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon 05 Sep 2011 10:43 am
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Location: BÁC, Éire
go raibh maith agat lads I thought it was wrong


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 Post subject: Re: Ainm
PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2012 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon 29 Aug 2011 4:54 pm
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Location: Cill Dara
Lughaidh wrote:
Many people in Ireland claim they are native speakers because in Ireland, Irish is called "the native language of Ireland"
That is not my experience. People recognise it as being a part of our national identity and an important part of our culture, but do not claim to be 'native speakers'. I have never heard somebody make that claim when it wasn't actually true.

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 Post subject: Re: Ainm
PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2012 5:21 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
Many people in Ireland claim they are native speakers because in Ireland, Irish is called "the native language of Ireland"
That is not my experience. People recognise it as being a part of our national identity and an important part of our culture, but do not claim to be 'native speakers'. I have never heard somebody make that claim when it wasn't actually true.


Not my experience either.


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 Post subject: Re: Ainm
PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2012 1:44 am 
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Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:44 pm
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
What I do hear occasionally (though more from Irish Americans than from people in Ireland) is a reference to Irish as "my/our native tongue," even though they don't speak a word of it. I think there's confusion out there as to what constitutes one's "native language." Just because you have a strong cultural link to a language does not make it your "native" language -- your "native" language is the one that was spoken in your home when you were growing up (in other words, your "first" language)...the one that you've been acquiring since you were born.

I recently re-watched Des Bishop's "In the Name of the Fada," and that line "Can I make them laugh in our native tongue?" really struck me. Des Bishop has done a lot for the Irish language, but Irish is no more his native tongue than it is mine.

The problem is that the use of "native" in this context is incorrect and misleading...if you weren't raised in an Irish-speaking household or community, is isn't, and never can be, your "native tongue."

When you hear "Irish is my native tongue," the logical assumption is "I'm a native speaker of Irish"...and people who make the first claim often don't really mean the second. What they mean is "Irish is my ancestral language...a language to which I have a legitimate historical/cultural connection." That latter is a very valid claim, and it's a (good!) reason that a lot of people have for learning Irish.

I think it comes down to a real misunderstanding of the word "native." In this context it means "birth" (synonymous with "natal")

Redwolf


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