Isn't the negative form of atá nach bhfuil?

thanks,

David

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Irish Gaelic Tutor
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Yes it is "nach bhfuil".

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

There's ná fuil too in Munster??? Irish.

Yeah, that's what Peig says all the time in her book.

Ya , three options here-----nach bhfuil/ nách bhfuil/ ná fuil

Is this not just a case of a gutteral losing its friction when it is medial, or terminal?
So behaving like dh and gh?

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Is mise, le meas, Deġeḃ.
Is Sasanaċ mé.
Tá beagán Gaoluinn agam.
As Béarla:
I see things differently.
I see things other people can't see.
Sometimes what I see is not there.
Some people call me crazy, and some of them are right.

I'm not too sure of the phonetics, but ná fuil and nach bhfuil are different forms.
If you talk a verb starting with a vowel it's more obvious:
ná holann sé
nach olann sé

ná is the particle used in Munster with nach used elsewhere.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

If you consider the terminal 'ch' mutating to 'h', then the 'h' present, adjacent to the bh will devoice it, and restore the 'f'.
So the 'h' following the vowel, lengthens it, while it de-eclipses the 'f'.
A similar effect is as below.

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Is mise, le meas, Deġeḃ.
Is Sasanaċ mé.
Tá beagán Gaoluinn agam.
As Béarla:
I see things differently.
I see things other people can't see.
Sometimes what I see is not there.
Some people call me crazy, and some of them are right.

Ní hea. Note the complete absence of eclipsis after ná. As an Lon Dubh says, we are dealing with two distinct particles here whose distribution simply varies between dialects.


Find me some other example of this happening in Irish.

A Loin Dhuibh, a charaid. Ní thuigim cad athá i gceist agat le "different forms"?

Ná/nách (m)ba chóra "nach n-ólann sé" ' bheith ann?

But Deghebh may be correct in his observation:

Innád- is the Old Irish version of the mír cheisteach dhiúltach/ negative interrogative particle. It also eclipsed the following verb as modern Irish (nách/nach) does. "Ná" does not eclipse the following verb.

The beginning two letters of Innád would have been dropped or báite to create nád, similarly to the plural form of the article *inna>na. Nád would have acquired a séimhiú on the "d" during its transition from Old Irish into Middle and early Modern Irish to create nádh. It is generally accepted that nearly all lenited consonants would have been guttural. The guttural form may have persisted in other dialects and nách/nach might have been created as a means of representing the guttural sound; as most medial and terminal lenited consonants became "silent" or else they took on a "ú" sound:

Siubhal>Siúbhal>Siúl (Caighdeán);
Guide (O.Irish)>Guidhe>guí (caighdeán);
Molad (O.Irish)>moladh (Caighdeán);
Sainemail (O.Irish (excellent))>saineamhail>sainiúil (Caighdeán).

The Munster form ná may have been a natural transition from nádh /n'a:x/ > ná /n'a:/ as was common with most lenited consonants- as expressed above.

However, nach is also common in Munster Irish, but as "nách", as Rossaí pointed out. But I believe the "a" in nach is pronounced as if it were accented in all dialects anyway.

This is my opinion, another etymological reading might be better suited.

Crossed with Deghebh and Domhnaillín

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice