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PostPosted: Mon 10 Jun 2013 5:06 pm 
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As I understand it, the sentence He owns a horse. is rendered as Is leis-sean capall. in Irish. Or you could alternatively say Tá capall aige., although, that is closer in meaning to He has a horse.

Anyhow, I am wondering how we can ask What kind of horse does he own? Would it just be something like Cén cineál capaill leis-sean? Also, if so, could cén sórt capaill also be used here instead of cén cineál capaill or does cén sórt apply more to items like food, etc. instead of animals and living things?

Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Mon 10 Jun 2013 11:30 pm 
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Quote:
As I understand it, the sentence He owns a horse. is rendered as Is leis-sean capall. in Irish. Or you could alternatively say Tá capall aige., although, that is closer in meaning to He has a horse.


I'm not sure you can say "is leis seanchapall". Normally you use "is leis" with a definite noun: is leis an seanchapall = the old horse is his / he owns the old horse.

Quote:
Anyhow, I am wondering how we can ask What kind of horse does he own? Would it just be something like Cén cineál capaill leis-sean? Also, if so, could cén sórt capaill also be used here instead of cén cineál capaill or does cén sórt apply more to items like food, etc. instead of animals and living things?


cén cineál or cén sórt are equivalent.
You'd say "Cén cineál/sórt capaill atá aige?".

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PostPosted: Mon 10 Jun 2013 11:48 pm 
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I have to agree with Lughaidh. Is leis seanachapall sounds weird to me. I think I'd need the definite article for it to sound right to me in speech.


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PostPosted: Mon 10 Jun 2013 11:50 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
As I understand it, the sentence He owns a horse. is rendered as Is leis-sean capall. in Irish. Or you could alternatively say Tá capall aige., although, that is closer in meaning to He has a horse.


I'm not sure you can say "is leis seanchapall". Normally you use "is leis" with a definite noun: is leis an seanchapall = the old horse is his / he owns the old horse.

Quote:
Anyhow, I am wondering how we can ask What kind of horse does he own? Would it just be something like Cén cineál capaill leis-sean? Also, if so, could cén sórt capaill also be used here instead of cén cineál capaill or does cén sórt apply more to items like food, etc. instead of animals and living things?


cén cineál or cén sórt are equivalent.
You'd say "Cén cineál/sórt capaill atá aige?".


I think he's using "sean" as an intensifier here (is that the word?). It's the emphatic of "leis."

But it doesn't make a lot of sense, asenion, as I wouldn't read it as "he owns a horse," but rather "a horse is HIS."

I'd go with Lughaidh: "Cén cineál/sórt capaill atá aige?": What kind of horse does he have? There isn't a real distinction between "own" and "have" in this kind of thing.

Redwolf


Last edited by Redwolf on Tue 11 Jun 2013 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2013 12:30 am 
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Quote:
Cén cineál/sort capaill atá aige?


And just to add a third choice (the different dialects have their own preferences for "what kind/sort of"):

Cén saghas capaill atá aige?

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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2013 1:05 am 
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Ok if we are into dialectal things now, "capall" means "mare" in Donegal, "horse" is "beathach" :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2013 10:20 am 
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I don't know for sure but you might be able to say,

Cad é an cineál capaill leis?

but I would definitely like to hear other opinions on that.

But if you're using Is le.... it would have to be a definite noun

Is leis an capall.
An leis an capall?

An indefinite noun would take Tá ag...

Tá capall aige.
An bhfuil capall aige?

Cén cineál/sort/saghas...? are all sorts of ways to say What sort....?


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2013 3:14 pm 
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Thanks, everyone. I understand it now. I missed that fine detail about needing a definite article along with the possessed items to use the method that utilizes the copula.

@RedWolf: Yes, Wiktionary was listing leis-sean as the emphatic form of leis and that is what I meant here.

@Lughaidh: That is interesting. I am just using the Collins Pocket Irish Dictionary app on my Android phone. If I look up horse on the English side, it only shows capall, but if I look up mare on the English side, it has capall listed there as well. Unfortunately the Irish side doesn't have the entry beathach listed. I wish these dictionaries could be both accurate as well as point out dialect differences or at least display capall (mare), beathach (in general) at the entry for horse or something. LOL Thanks for the information on this word though.


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2013 5:22 pm 
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asenion wrote:
Thanks, everyone. I understand it now. I missed that fine detail about needing a definite article along with the possessed items to use the method that utilizes the copula.

@RedWolf: Yes, Wiktionary was listing leis-sean as the emphatic form of leis and that is what I meant here.

@Lughaidh: That is interesting. I am just using the Collins Pocket Irish Dictionary app on my Android phone. If I look up horse on the English side, it only shows capall, but if I look up mare on the English side, it has capall listed there as well. Unfortunately the Irish side doesn't have the entry beathach listed. I wish these dictionaries could be both accurate as well as point out dialect differences or at least display capall (mare), beathach (in general) at the entry for horse or something. LOL Thanks for the information on this word though.


The Collins app is great for day-to-day use, but if you want something that shows dialect variations, various usages, etc., you'll ultimately want to invest in "the big two": Ó Dónaill's Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla and De Bhaldraithe's English-Irish Dictionary (often fondly referred to as "FGB and Baldy"). You may want a copy of Dineen as well (though I think that's now available on-line), especially if you get into more historical stuff, classical literature, etc.

The construction with "le" is analogous to saying "it is his/hers/mine/etc." in English. It does indicate ownership, but it doesn't really "translate" to "x owns y."

Is liomsa an hata sin: That hat is mine

Is leatsa an peann seo
: This pen is yours

Is leis-sean an capall: The horse/mare is his

As others have pointed out, it can only be used when you're talking about something definite: "the horse," "that hat," "this pen," etc.

Redwolf


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