Hello Everyone,

I was wondering, has the the new standard had a large impact on the language in Ireland? For example, are people changing how they use Gaeilge or are they still talking like they did before?

Thanks,

Swiss

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I don't think native speakers would change anything, even before they didn't change much of their Irish - thank God. For non-native speakers, I don't know. I'd like people to speak Gaeltacht dialects as much as possible rather than artificial Irish

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

There is no real change as of yet nor will it have any large impact. The changes are too small and the older rules are still accepted and known by most, there's no reason for those to re-learn stuff- really why would they. What it may do is go some way to reverse the mentality, in the Irish education system, of "I have never seen or heard that form in Irish before, therefore, its wrong"...however, dialectal features that are not in the Caighdeán handbook are still classified as "wrong" . However, it allows teachers, who are native speakers or those who are aware of dialectal features to use and write them in class; creating a deeper understanding of them.

The Caighdeán Athbhreithnithe only really allows for a restricted amount of dialectal features to be accepted, especially around the initial mutations brought about by the Tuiseal Tabharthach or Tuiseal Cuspóireach i.e

It now allows for lenition after a réamhfhocal + an t-alt, as in Ulster Irish: Ar an chrann etc...
(as it was with the Old Irish Tabharthach, uruithe are associated, in Old Irish, with the Tuiseal Cuspóireach)

And allows for eclipsion on the d and t, as in Munster Irish: ag an ndochtúir, ag an ndoras
Previously, such mutations were forbidden as it interfered with the DNTLS rule.

However, as I said this allowance is restricted, just by looking at the réamhfhocal even, where arguably the greatest leeway is given, you can see what I mean and how far the Caighdeán has to bend in order to obtain a real sense of inclusiveness:

The réamhfhocal "ar" is traditionally written and pronounced as "air" in Munster, just like it is in Scottish Gaelic. Likewise, "ag" is written and pronounced as aige (ag); aig'n/ aige (ag an) and aiges na (at the (plural). Scottish Gaelic also uses "aig".

The "s" in "aiges na" is known as the "s" staireamhail or the historical "s" and is another bone of contention. The Historical "s" is well attested in Old irish i.e a (out of), asin (out of the), which is why we have "as" now; i (in), isin (in the), modern Irish insan. It remains to some degree in the standard, in the forms leis an (Old. Ir lasin) etc...

The Caighdeán Athbhreithnithe has allowed for "insa" and "ins an" (Munster, Ulster, Scottish Gaelic) where previously "sa" and "san" were only allowed and it also allows eclipsion on nouns beginning with "f" following "insa" i.e "insa bhfarraige", it was only "san fharraige" previously.

The historical "s" is so strong in Munster that its used in réamhfhocal where it wasn't even in Old Irish i.e with "do" i.e dos na (Old Ir. dona) and roimis or roimhis na (Ring), instead of roimh na.

Also, both the Old Tabharthach singular, especially feminine nouns of the second and 5th declension, and Tabharthach plural (all declensions) are still used by Munster native speakers i.e

Tabharthach singular: air an gcloich (Standard: ar an gcloch), leis an mbáistigh (standard: leis an mbáisteach), do'n dteangain*1 (standard: don (d)teanga), aig'n bhfuinneoig, aig'n sg(é)iol*2 (standard: ag an scéal).

Tabharthach plural: aiges na daoinibh (standard: ag na daoine), aiges na fearaibh (standard: ag na fir) (Old Ir. feraibh) srl...

*1 Teanga is classified as a 5th declension in Munster as the Genitive is "teangan"
*2 Tabharthach of masculine nouns, a bit archaic today.

None of these are allowed by the standard, even though they are well attested in Old Irish and Munster Irish.

That's just a tasting of the réamhfhocail, I still left stuff out regarding them and didn't even mention other features like verbs etc...

In the speaking aspect of the language, the Caighdeán Athbhreithnithe will also have no affect on pronunciation teaching or practices; students, learners and teachers will continue to pronounce Irish as if she were English.

The only real difference is it gives native speakers the right to use a restricted form of "their" language in more official settings (schools (the heart of the revival, some may argue) etc...) and in official documents. I suppose the only reason native speakers got any leeway was by choosing to ignore the restrictions when possible and by complaining about them. Hopefully this will continue and slowly, brick by brick, we can demolish the restrictions, before its too late.

Cian

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

Ah, very interesting! Thanks for the information folks :}.

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