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 Post subject: Direct Relative Clause
PostPosted: Fri 23 May 2014 8:02 am 
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I've just started on Nancy Stenson's Intermediate Irish, and can proudly say I've made it all the way to page 2.

Quote:
an múinteoir a mhol na daltaí, the teacher that the pupils praised
an múinteoir a mhol na daltaí, the teacher who praised the pupils

What are some of the ways to re-phrase this kind of sentence if the context doesn't make it clear who is praising who? Then there's the negative form:

Quote:
an múinteoir nár mhol na daltaí, the teacher who didn't praise the pupils/whom the pupils didn't praise

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PostPosted: Fri 23 May 2014 8:47 pm 
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Mick wrote:
I've just started on Nancy Stenson's Intermediate Irish, and can proudly say I've made it all the way to page 2.

Quote:
an múinteoir a mhol na daltaí, the teacher that the pupils praised
an múinteoir a mhol na daltaí, the teacher who praised the pupils

What are some of the ways to re-phrase this kind of sentence if the context doesn't make it clear who is praising who? Then there's the negative form:

Quote:
an múinteoir nár mhol na daltaí, the teacher who didn't praise the pupils/whom the pupils didn't praise


I think you can clarify it by adding a pronoun to it - an múinteoir ar mhol na daltaí é - the teacher that the pupils praised.

Wait for more learned explanations.


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PostPosted: Sat 24 May 2014 7:26 pm 
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Quote:
an múinteoir a mhol na daltaí, the teacher that the pupils praised

an múinteoir a bhí á mholadh ag na daltaí "the teacher that the pupils praised" (if the teacher is a man)

an múinteoir a bhí á moladh ag na daltaí "the teacher that the pupils praised" (if the teacher is a woman)

Quote:
an múinteoir a mhol na daltaí, the teacher who praised the pupils

an múinteoir a bhí ag moladh na daltaí "the teacher who praised the pupils"

Quote:
an múinteoir nár mhol na daltaí, the teacher who didn't praise the pupils

an múinteoir nach raibh ag moladh na daltaí "the teacher didn't praise the pupils"

Quote:
an múinteoir nár mhol na daltaí, the teacher whom the pupils didn't praise

an múinteoir nach raibh á mholadh ag na daltaí "the teacher whom the pupils didn't praise" (if the teacher is a man)

an múinteoir nach raibh á moladh ag na daltaí "the teacher whom the pupils didn't praise" (if the teacher is a woman)

Await correction or confirmation ...

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
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PostPosted: Sun 25 May 2014 8:34 pm 
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MacBoo and Breandán, thanks for those examples.

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PostPosted: Sun 25 May 2014 9:46 pm 
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Just a question for Breandán, would these constructions not mean '...who was/was not praising the pupils' and '...who was/was not being praised by the pupils'?


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PostPosted: Mon 26 May 2014 9:49 am 
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MacBoo wrote:
Just a question for Breandán, would these constructions not mean '...who was/was not praising the pupils' and '...who was/was not being praised by the pupils'?

Yes, but just as Irish doesn't have a "perfect" tense, the distinction between these two tenses doesn't seem as strict in Irish as it might be in English.

If the teacher "was praising" the students, then it is also true that the teacher "praised" the students.

Likewise, if the teacher "was being praised" by the students, then it is also true that the teacher "was praised" by the students.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Mon 26 May 2014 11:31 am 
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. Thanks for the explanation, Breandán. So, if I understand correctly, it would be inferred from further context which would be meant,

Bhí an múinteoir ag moladh na daltaí a rinne an obair inné ( = mhol an múinteoir na daltaí a...) - the teacher praised the students who did the work yesterday.
Bhí an múinteoir ag moladh na daltaí agus iad ag dul abhaile - the teacher was praising the students when they were going home.

not sure if my Irish is completely correct but I hope you see what I mean.

Thanks again.


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