Níl rud gan rud eile.
Ní bhíonn rud gan rud eile.
Ní rud go rud eile.

In another topic I suggested using bíonn instead of tá and was rewarded with hearing it was better in this instance, now the crux of the matter is I’m not sure when you would use the one over the other, if there is a subtle difference in meaning. And what about ní….go… ? How is this arrived at? Is it the copula?

Any explanation would be appreciated.

Bíonn is used for repeated actions or something that generally "is", such as "the weather is good in this part of the world".

Nuair a bhím i nGaillimh, bím lá i gCeathrú Rua agus lá i Ros Muc = When I am in Galway, I spend a day in Ceathrú Rua and a day in Ros Muc.

If you're from Ireland, then Tá vs. Bíonn is exactly the difference between "I am" and "I do be".


To me Ní X go/go dtí Y is an idiom meaning "There is no X like Y":

Ní fear go dtí é = There is no man like him.

(The exact translation is quite complicated, since this phrase preserves go dtí in its original meaning where tí is a form of the verb téigh)

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Thank you for your reply, An Lon Dubh.

I don't think I was clear in my post.
I understand the difference between tá and bíonn (is and does be)

What I would like to know is how they would differ when used with gan. My own feeling is that ní bhíonn...gan... would be used in a general case, but níl...gan... would be used in a specific case. Would I might be miles off in thinking that?

The ní...go... construction, I have heard, means literally it's not something until something else - Ní nert go cur le chéile - no strength until/without coming together; ní saor go binn - Not a craftsman until a gable.
I've never seen it used as a comparison and I don't think I've ever seen it with go dtí, so that's something new I've learned.

I was wondering about the grammar behind it though. I would have thought ní saor é go bhfuil binn ann or something like that for the full sentence.

Hope I'm not being too annoying with these questions.

I've just seen an example of An Lon Dubh's Ní...go dtí... - Níor mhadra go dtí é, I'm surprised I haven't come across it before. Maybe I have and I just didn't notice it. So I looked it up in the dictionary and found ní haoibhneas go dtí é and níor chaoineadh go dtí é, came across ní feabhas go dtí é elsewhere, but this doesn't really fit into the ní...go... pattern I was asking about. Ní saor go binn - no mason like a gable? or ní madra go é? it seems that with dtí (old subjunctive of teacht) it means one thing and without it it means something something else. Or am I just over thinking it all?

Sorry to be such a pain with all these questions...

They're the same structure but go dtí is used with pronouns. Unlike Ní x go y it can be used in the past (because it's "particularised"?): Ní/níor amadán go dtí é.. While the easiest/most natural translation may well be "(There is/was) no fool like him", AFAIK it's not really a comparison. It's, structurally, as you said "No fool until him". Similarly, Ní féasta go rósta; Ní neart go cur le chéile could be translated as "No feast like a roast"; "No strength like coming together" but this would hardly work for Ní saor go binn; ní breac go port . Translation will vary according to context, but the underlying structure is "no/not x until y".



I've tried to rationalise the grammar too. I think I'd use "mbíonn" rather than "bhfuil", but that might change debending on context. Since it's an old idiomatic structure, it might be best not to be over-analytical.

Google "Ní gontacht go Gaeilge" (I don't know how to give the link) for some interesting stuff from our old forum which I remember from my first year there.

(Crossed with your last post, Macboo.)

Thanks for the reply Errigal.
I think being over-analytical is sometimes my problem

BTW for anyone else interested here's the link to the thread Errigal mentioned: Ní gontacht go Gaeilge.