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 Post subject: song lyrics
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012 8:35 am 
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Ok, so I've been listening to a song sang in Irish (Gleanntáin Ghlas' Ghaoth Dobhair, Altan's version) for quite some time now, and reading the lyrics as its sang, but there are several things that don't make sense and I can't find the answers to my questions on my own, so I'm hoping to get some answers here. Rather than list them all at once, I thought it might be more practical to start with the real head scratchers and maybe then the rest will make more sense.

The real stickers for me are the contractions that are used. I know that "is" and " 's " are both used for "agus", but what in the world does "B'é" mean?

I've also noticed that the " ' " symbol is used a lot (i.e. Ghlas', chroí'se, le'm, d'fheara). Is that normal in Irish writing? I don't recall seeing it before. Does it have some special significance? Or is it something that is being used improperly?


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 Post subject: Re: song lyrics
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012 9:20 am 
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The uaschamóg (= apostrophe) represents omitted letters as it does in English. It occurs more in renderings of dialect than in formal writing.

B'é = Ba é
glas' = glasa
chrse, emphatic of chr doesn't need it. If anything a fleiscín (= hyphen) is sometimes inserted.
le'm* should be lem' or just lem = le mo (or le m'fhear, etc.)
d'fheara = do fheara (but do + fh would be contracted to d'fh in standard anyway).

'S can also be a contraction of the copula Is, so it is not always agus/is.

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
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 Post subject: Re: song lyrics
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012 11:25 am 
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Quote:
chróise, emphatic of chrói doesn't need it. If anything a flesicín (= hyphen) is sometimes inserted.


there's a typo, should be "chroíse" and "chroí" :)

Smith > are there other things you don't understand?

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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 Post subject: Re: song lyrics
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012 12:07 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
chróise, emphatic of chrói doesn't need it. If anything a flesicín (= hyphen) is sometimes inserted.

there's a typo, should be "chroíse" and "chroí" :)

And in fleiscín. :oops: Fixed above! :GRMA:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: song lyrics
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012 4:06 pm 
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In addition, syllables are often left off in songs to allow the words to fit the meter...which is typically indicated when the words are written out by using an apostrophe.

BTW, Altan's version would be the definitive version, as the song was written my Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh's father (it's not a traditional song, in that sense).

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: song lyrics
PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar 2012 9:02 pm 
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Redwolf, I figured the syllables were being left off for that reason, but it sure makes it confusing for us rank amatuers to figure out what's being said! ;)

Lughaidh, clearing up the contractions made sense of a lot of other things, but there are a few other minor things that I can't figure out. For instance, in the song lyrics, the word "chondae" keeps coming up. The closest I've found, especially that matches the context of the song, is "contae," meaning, of course, "county" (i.e. County Donegal, which in the song lyrics is written "chondae Dhún na nGall"). Am I right in assuming that "condae" and "contae" are the same word, just different dialects?

edit: another word along the same lines in the song lyrics is "pilleadh." I'm thinking that's supposed to be "filleadh" (return). Is that a dialect thing? Or maybe a typo?

:GRMA:


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 Post subject: Re: song lyrics
PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar 2012 9:14 pm 
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Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga chondae Dhún na nGall.
A hundred farewells to County Donegal's stately mountains.

As you see, the stately/majestic mountains "belong" to Donegal. So the H is added then.
Somebody please explain that better LOL.
Condae is the normal spelling in most places. But Contae is the standard spelling.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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 Post subject: Re: song lyrics
PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar 2012 4:59 am 
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Thank you for clearing that up, Bríd Mhór! I had a feeling that's what it was! If you wanted to say the "stately mountains" were in County Donegal, would you then say "...sléibhte maorga i gCondae Dhún na nGall"?


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 Post subject: Re: song lyrics
PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar 2012 5:19 am 
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"Pill" is standard in Donegal for what is "fill" elsewhere. So yes..."pilleadh" = "filleadh."

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: song lyrics
PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar 2012 12:34 pm 
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SmithJR67 wrote:
Thank you for clearing that up, Bríd Mhór! I had a feeling that's what it was! If you wanted to say the "stately mountains" were in County Donegal, would you then say "...sléibhte maorga i gCondae Dhún na nGall"?



"...sléibhte maorga i gCondae Dhún na nGall"

That's right.

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___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

___________________________________________________________


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