The "turas" also refers to the pilgrims going around the well:

"Do thug sé turas thi(m)cheall an tobair."

He gave a trip around the well.

In Déise Irish the "Tímpeall/ timpeall" is pronounced and written as "thimpeall"; older: "thi(m)cheall"

Cín Lae Amhlaoibh Ó Suilleabháin: A kerry native that moved to Waterford and then onto Callan in Tipperary/ Kilkenny in the early to middle 1800s.

"Daoine cráifeacha ag tabhairt turais timpeall an tobair" pg.58, line 1849
(De Bhaldraithe, Tomás. (pg.58), 2003 (1970 first printed), An Clóchomhar Tta)

Religious people taking a trip/ pilgrimage around the well

Unfortunately the version I have has been standardised to the high heavens!

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That's unfortunate, I just bought Cín Lae Amhlaoibh. I'm still interested in it historically, but this
urge to standardised everything (even stuff from the 18th century, which should be in the original form for historical research) is just ridiculous.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

You can still get your hands on the original copy, but its extremely difficult to. You might have better luck if you type in Ci/ínnlae Amhlaoibh Uí Shuilleabháin, Cinnlae is the older spelling. Cín is a very old Irish word for book, whereas "lae" is day- "day book".

People need to realise that these books are not just useful for historical research but also because of the language that's used in them. Thankfully De Bhaldraithe has kept the originals for some words like: gus (go dtí). noch/ ór (mar), chum (chun), d' éis (tar-éis). In fairness to De Bhaldraithe he has also given an explanation on how he standardised the contents and the difficulty in doing so. He also has an extensive foclóir at the back of the book and also in the back he has categorised the book into themes and where it is possible to find such themes within the core of the book. That was very helpful for a college essay I had to write.

Its a well thought out book, but its just a pity that it had to be standardised.

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Mick, we had a group around here that tried the chatting in the pub thing a few years back. It worked pretty well, until the local beer monsters would get drunk and started screaming at the TV or making passes at the college girls in the group. Attendance eventually fell off. I think the mistake that we made was in not going to a more upscale pub. How's it working out for you?

I'm finished with Chapter IV, btw. It was a very short chapter, and I didn't run across any surprises. There were fewer exercises than I would have liked, though.

We moved our group to a different pub 2 weeks ago with the start of the soccer season. We weren't getting hassle from anyone, it was just hard to hear each other over the TV, plus two of us are big sports fans and were getting distracted. Now we're in a much quieter place that doesn't have any sport, and it works much better.

Strangely enough, we don't have any females in our group. I keep hearing about how women are more interested in languages than men are, but that doesn't seem to be the case here in Kilkenny. (Or maybe I just need to change my aftershave or something).


I've done lesson 4 too. I think it was the easiest one so far.

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Táim ag foghlaim fós. Fáilte roimh gach aon cheartúchán.

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So that's the whiff I sometimes get when I log on to ILF......!

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If it's a kind of rugged, manly "whiff" then I'll take responsibility for it. But if I've been drinking Guiness, then hold your nose.

Back on topic: here's a tricky word that caught me out in lesson 5, an tseana-scoil (the old school).

I know that "an" puts a t in front of feminine words beginning with s, but you normally don't do it with scoil because "an tscoil" would be impossible to pronounce. So I never thought about putting the t onto seana-scoil.

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Táim ag foghlaim fós. Fáilte roimh gach aon cheartúchán.

"Sco" constructions can't be lenited, however, its not "scoil" that you are leniting but "sean", and "sea" constructions can be.

In compound words the prefixed adjective adopts the gender of the following noun.

sean adopts the feminine scoil: an tseana-scoil, an tseana-mháthair, an tseana-Ghaoluinn

but

"an sean-athair", "an seana-bhuachaill"

The words don't need to be hyphanised.

other exaples:

"an phríomhscoil" but "an príomhd(h)oras"

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Just a general point for everybody working their way through this book, no matter where you are in it, about the dual.

The nominative dual has the same form as the dative singular:
ar an bhfuinneoig = on the window
dhá fhuinneoig = two windows

Typically it is formed by taking the genitive and knocking of the final e.

Some words since they have irregular datives, have irregular duals:

ar an mboin = on the cows
dhá bhoin = two cows

However I want to say that the dual is rarer today than the dative, even though both have the same form. There are people who say:
ar an mboin
dhá bhó

Since every number after a haon sort of insulates the noun after it, you usually don't have to worry about genitive duals or dative duals. Traditionally some nouns had a genitive dual which was different to their nominative dual, but the same as the genitive plural. Examples are súil (g.d. súl), glúin (g.d. glún), bliain (g.d. blian). You'll see these if you read Peadar Ua Laoghaire, Peig, Tomás Ó Criomhthain or other old Munster writers. I can gather a few examples if anybody would like.

Also, quite often, the nominative today is not what it used to be. For example glúin, used to be glún, this is because the dative replaced the nominative. Now the usual rule is that the genitive plural is the same as the nominative singular (for weak plurals ). However this often leaves the genitive plural the same as the old nominative singular.

An ghlúin = The knee.
Gealacáin a nglún = The caps of their knees.

Last note:
Adjectives don't have a dual form, even though they have a dative form:

ar an mboin mhóir (móir in Peadar Ua Laoghaire's time)
dhá bhoin mhór

Also adjective don't get inflected after numbers larger than a haon, they stay in the nominative.

Trí bhád mhóra = The three boats (notice adjective in plural, even though noun is not)
Ramhaí na dtrí mbád mhóra = Oars of the three boats (notice trí, cheithre, chúig and sé take an urú and so do the adjective following them in the genitive plural.)

More complete number rules here:
http://irishlearner.awyr.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1472&p=12317&hilit=numbers#p12317

Now you might understand why one of my proudest Munster Irish moments was when I correctly asked for "the lids of these three saucepans" in Corca Dhuibhne.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal