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 Post subject: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct 2011 1:17 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
Could you tell me what the nuance between chun, chuig and go dtí is, please? (and there's probably a difference in the way they're used, I suppose)


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct 2011 1:30 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
Could you tell me what the nuance between chun, chuig and go dtí is, please? (and there's probably a difference in the way they're used, I suppose)

There is no semantic difference between chun and chuig. The only differences are:

a) that chun governs the genitive while chuig governs the accusative;
b) that chuig is more commonly used in Ulster than in the other dialects, while chun is slightly less commonly used there

Go dtí refers only to motion (spatial or temporal) up to a certain point/place. Chun/chuig have broader meanings. If you think of go dtí in its historical sense (go ‘until’ + (d)tí ‘come/go’, an old subjunctive form of téigh, nowadays go dté when meant literally), you can get a feeling for what it really means: ‘until X is reached’ or ‘until X comes’.

When denoting motion towards a place, you can sometimes argue that go dtí means ‘up to (but not necessarily into)’, while chun/chuig means ‘up to (and into)’. For example, chuaigh sé go dtí an siopa ‘he went over to the store’ (but he didn’t necessarily go into it, maybe he just went to get something he’d left on the parking lot outside it or something), but chuaigh sé chuig an tsiopa ‘he went to the store’ (he definitely went inside).

The differences are minor, though, and if you use the ‘wrong’ one sometimes, nobody will bat an eye (if they’ll even notice).

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Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct 2011 1:39 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
go raibh maith agat


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct 2011 2:13 pm 
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Location: Moscó, An Rúis
and if I remember correctly, after go dtí uses the nominative

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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct 2011 2:22 pm 
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Quote:
that chuig is more commonly used in Ulster than in the other dialects,


not more

Quote:
while chun is slightly less commonly used there


in the contrary, "chun" is more used in Ulster, while other dialects use more "go dtí" instead. But normally "go dtí" is mainly used to talk about time (ceathrú go dtí a sé) in Ulster.
To say "he's going to the shop", Munster and Connachta would rather say "Tá sé 'dul/gabháil go dtí'n siopa", while Ulster people would say "Tá sé 'gabháil chun an tsiopa" (pronounced "na tsiopa").

"Chuig" has merged with "ag" most of the time in Connachta and Ulster.
In Ulster "chuig" is used when you go to an event : ghabháil chuig coinne, chuig ceolchoirm...

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct 2011 6:39 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
that chuig is more commonly used in Ulster than in the other dialects,


not more

Quote:
while chun is slightly less commonly used there


in the contrary, "chun" is more used in Ulster

Sorry, those were backwards—it was supposed to be chuig less used (outside of events) and chun more used in Ulster.

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Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct 2011 12:04 am 
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I learned vvith the grammar-lite, caighdeánised-Ulster 'Novv You're Talking' ['Irish on Your Ovvn' in USA]. It gave a briev explllanation ov the divverence [in Ulster] betvveen 'go/go dtí/chuig', yet vailed to mention 'chun' at all - except as a vootnote in a later lesson as to vvhy 'abhaile' vvas pronounced 'na bhaile'.


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct 2011 12:20 am 
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Errigal wrote:
I learned vvith the grammar-lite, caighdeánised-Ulster 'Novv You're Talking' ['Irish on Your Ovvn' in USA]. It gave a briev explllanation ov the divverence [in Ulster] betvveen 'go/go dtí/chuig', yet vailed to mention 'chun' at all - except as a vootnote in a later lesson as to vvhy 'abhaile' vvas pronounced 'na bhaile'.

Errigal I think your posts would be easier to read if you used mh for v, bh for w, and h for f.

Sin é! :idea: Tá do mhéarchlár ag iarraidh a rá leat gan a bheith ag scríobh i mBéarla. :LOL:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct 2011 12:38 am 
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2436
Quote:
I learned vvith the grammar-lite, caighdeánised-Ulster 'Novv You're Talking' ['Irish on Your Ovvn' in USA]. It gave a briev explllanation ov the divverence [in Ulster] betvveen 'go/go dtí/chuig', yet vailed to mention 'chun' at all - except as a vootnote in a later lesson as to vvhy 'abhaile' vvas pronounced 'na bhaile'.


I guess they don't teach "chun" simply because it's followed by the genitive and because they believe learners are yoo stupid to learn it :rolleyes:
But that's how Ulster people speak, so if you teach Ulster Irish you have to teach it, or you don't claim you teach Ulster Irish. They take people for fools, and it prevents them from teaching real Irish... :no:

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: towards/to
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct 2011 6:36 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
Breandán wrote:
Errigal wrote:
I learned vvith the grammar-lite, caighdeánised-Ulster 'Novv You're Talking' ['Irish on Your Ovvn' in USA]. It gave a briev explllanation ov the divverence [in Ulster] betvveen 'go/go dtí/chuig', yet vailed to mention 'chun' at all - except as a vootnote in a later lesson as to vvhy 'abhaile' vvas pronounced 'na bhaile'.

Errigal I think your posts would be easier to read if you used mh for v, bh for w, and h for f.

Sin é! :idea: Tá do mhéarchlár ag iarraidh a rá leat gan a bheith ag scríobh i mBéarla. :LOL:


I think we need to take up a collection and buy poor Errigal a new keyboard!

Seriously...is there anything we can do to help? I've got a bunch of old keyboards lying around (not sure how they might work out of country, however...do standards differ?)

Redwolf


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