It is currently Wed 16 Sep 2026 4:02 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2013 9:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun 17 Feb 2013 6:21 pm
Posts: 78
Another small question from me. Most of the dictionaries I've searched give me two translations for 'wolf': faolchú and mac tíre. The second one got me interested. It looks poetic and archaic, much like a kenning. Is it used in modern everyday speech? Is it perceived as a metaphor or simply a word that can be used in any context?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2013 9:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue 06 Sep 2011 8:09 pm
Posts: 943
Mac tíre is what I use in speech. Yeah, it's a nice word, literally it means "son of the land". There's also madra allta or madra alla.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2013 9:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1527
Pangur wrote:
Another small question from me. Most of the dictionaries I've searched give me two translations for 'wolf': faolchú and mac tíre. The second one got me interested. It looks poetic and archaic, much like a kenning. Is it used in modern everyday speech? Is it perceived as a metaphor or simply a word that can be used in any context?


Actually, the second one is much more common. You also have faol (as in my name :) ), madra(dh)/ madadh/ cú allta (literally, wild dog), you also have older more archaic words like sídheach, criun/críun/críuin, bréach

Crossed with Gumbi

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2013 10:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri 30 Sep 2011 10:08 pm
Posts: 1313
Same here (but the three of us use Munster, so this could be highly biased.) Machtíre is the normal word.
(It has a ch in Cork and Kerry).

_________________
The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2013 10:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon 29 Aug 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 3444
Location: Cill Dara
I use mac tíre also. :dog: (The running dog is the closest I could find to a wolf.....)

_________________
Is foghlaimeoir mé. I am a learner. DEFINITELY wait for others to confirm and/or improve.
Beatha teanga í a labhairt.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2013 10:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 1581
Quote:
Is it perceived as a metaphor or simply a word that can be used in any context?


Many languages have ancient euphemisms like that for dangerous animals like wolves and bears, because of superstitions that, if you said the real name, the animal might appear and harm you. In some traditional cultures, one is not supposed to mention the name of a dead person, for similar reasons (the person's spirit might be invoked and do harm, or some other bad thing might happen).

In some languages, if you said the "real" name by mistake, there were charms you could use to un-invoke the feared animal (or evil spirit). If you've ever been around elderly Jewish people who use a lot of Yiddish, you may have heard them say "kay-nuh hurr-uh" (that's my phonetic version - I can't remember the usual Yiddish spelling when writing with Roman letters, and it can vary from person to person anyway) after they realize that they've complimented someone (especially a child complimented on its beauty). That comes from the German "[es soll] keiner hören" ("no one should hear") [or whatever the Middle High German version of that was], which is a charm said to ward off the evil spirits who might hear the compliment and might come to harm the child out of jealousy.

_________________
I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2013 11:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1527
An Lon Dubh wrote:
Same here (but the three of us use Munster, so this could be highly biased.) Machtíre is the normal word.
(It has a ch in Cork and Kerry).


I think Mac tíre written as two words is the fairly standard version, its the version I only heard while at school. Focal.ie only lists mac tíre, faolchú and funny enough bréach, but gives it under the heading ceol indicating it must be a musical term (bréach, is very uncommon nowadays usually its only seen in placenames).

Scottish Gaelic also has Gladaman.

Cian

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun 2013 11:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun 17 Feb 2013 6:21 pm
Posts: 78
Thank you, guys! I love to find such words in the language, and it's great to know they are still used. The very fact that there are so many names for a single animal is amazing. It's always interesting to learn how and why people named animals and plants, especially animals and plants that are native to the country. Irish seems so eloquent and evocative in this regard.

CaoimhínSF wrote:
Many languages have ancient euphemisms like that for dangerous animals like wolves and bears, because of superstitions that, if you said the real name, the animal might appear and harm you.

Yes, I'm familiar with these things. :yes: Actually, that's why 'mac tíre' got me interested in the first place. It struck me as ancient, and I wondered if it was still common. Glad to know it is.

And thank you all for other words for 'wolf', that's fascinating. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun 2013 7:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2114
Location: 91 - France
I hope it's not too off-topic but in the part of the world where I spend Summer (la Haute Provence) we have them and they're creating havoc in the Summer pastures. Last year I came face to face with one and very impressive he was too. I don't know why but 'loupé' means you missed it or didn't do it properly and saying - 'il a un loup' - means there's something wrong. There's a well-known folk song and dance in Occitan (and now in standard French) which says 'I saw the wolf, the fox and the hare dancing' which is usually taken to mean that the impoverished peasant saw the three people who took taxes from him - the nobleman, the clergyman, and I can't remember who the hare stands for, enjoying themselves at his expense.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun 2013 7:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat 18 Aug 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 723
Location: Nua Mheicsiceo
Of course, it's also possible that mac(h) tíre has nothing to do with fear of wolves.

The name could simply be based on an old folktale or belief (now lost in the mists of time) that had nothing at all to do with fear.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 2463 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group