Very off topic: Wild Geese (not what you're thinking)

Redwolf · **Posted:** Thu 12 Jun 2014 11:09 pm

This has nothing to do with language, so please forgive me in advance. But it does have to do with Irish symbology, so it's not ENTIRELY off topic.

We had a sermon last week in which the priest claimed that the "wild goose" was a "Celtic" symbol for the Holy Spirit. Like a lot of Americans, he equated "Celtic" with "Irish," so he talked quite a lot about how the "ancient Irish" believed this and that about the "wild goose."

As I've never heard this before (when I think "Wild Geese" and Ireland, I think more Flight of the Earls), and as this particular priest is very fond of New Agey stuff, and as I've not been able to find much on the web, I thought I'd ask here. Has anyone here heard of this?

With apologies again for the off-topic topic,

Redwolf

An Lon Dubh · **Joined:** Fri 30 Sep 2011 10:08 pm **Posts:** 1313

I've never heard of it, but I'll check my books on Irish Ecclesiastical history and get back to you.

Redwolf · **Posted:** Fri 13 Jun 2014 2:43 pm

An Lon Dubh wrote:

I've never heard of it, but I'll check my books on Irish Ecclesiastical history and get back to you.

Thanks. What info I've been able to find (which is fairly little) suggests it's a story coming out of the "Emergent" church movement, which this particular priest is a huge fan of, and which often has a rather shaky relationship with the truth ("Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story" as they say). In fact, there's a big "Celtic Christianity" movement (here in the U.S., at least), that has a more to do with what people imagine that Celtic peoples believed and practiced than with reality, and I rather suspect this may have come out of that movement, but I don't want to say anything without being sure (I'd look a right fool if this really were an Irish concept and I just couldn't find any information on it!)

Redwolf

Bríd Mhór · **Joined:** Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm **Posts:** 2985

Nothing to do with Ireland is off-topic.

I've never heard it either. I thought the dove was the symbol of the Holy Spirit.

I think most of what's known as Celtic is pre-Christianity anyhow.
I don't remember geese featuring in mythology either. But I'm not an expert ofcourse on either topic.

Saoirse · **Posted:** Fri 13 Jun 2014 8:28 pm

Bríd Mhór wrote:

Nothing to do with Ireland is off-topic.

Bríd Mhór wrote:

I've never heard it either.

Me neither, but I am even less expert on these matters than those who claim not be expert. :mrgreen:

Redwolf · **Posted:** Fri 13 Jun 2014 8:34 pm

It was interesting (and more than a little irritating) because several people came up to me after church on Sunday and asked me what I'd thought of the rector's sermon (It's a small church, and I'm well-known as the person who speaks Irish, plays the harp, etc., even though my involvement there is pretty much all to do with the choir), and all I could say was "well, I think it's bullshit, but I'll check."

Given that pretty much all I'm finding is coming out of that new-agey "emergent church" movement, I'm still pretty much convinced it's bullshit, but I'd hate to shoot my mouth off and then have someone come up with something from the writings of Naomh Colmcille or some such equating the holy spirit with wild geese...

Redwolf

CaoimhínSF · **Joined:** Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm **Posts:** 1581

On a blog which appears to be dedicated to the "wild goose" Christian movement, I found this admission:

Quote:

Scholars have not yet found any textual evidence that either "Wild Goose" or "an geadh-glas" were used by ancient Christian Celts (435-793 AD) to refer to the Holy Spirit. The presence of geese in Celtic art does not itself constitute proof. Celtic Christians drew many animals and art without an interpretive key can be quite ambiguous. It is also sometimes said that ancient Celtic Christians did not speak of the Holy Spirit as a dove. Yet Celts, both ancient and modern, did and do write of the Spirit as a dove and of that we have proof. We do know the metaphor of the Holy Spirit as Wild Goose was in use about 1940 by 20th century visionary George MacLeod and /or his contemporary sources.

But that does not mean we should abandon the image. Not at all. There are good reasons why the "wild goose= Holy Spirit" metaphor, may actually be more relevant for these tumultuous times if recently coined than if it had come from ancient Celtic Christians.

Here is the link to the page where the quote is found: http://wildgoosedove.blogspot.com/2008/08/chasing-documentation_5440.html

Saoirse · **Posted:** Sun 15 Jun 2014 7:42 am

I wonder if future generations of scholars will examine this thread when studying the origin of the phrase 'Wild Goose Chase'. :twisted:

Redwolf · **Posted:** Sun 15 Jun 2014 2:31 pm

CaoimhínSF wrote:

On a blog which appears to be dedicated to the "wild goose" Christian movement, I found this admission:

Quote:

Scholars have not yet found any textual evidence that either "Wild Goose" or "an geadh-glas" were used by ancient Christian Celts (435-793 AD) to refer to the Holy Spirit. The presence of geese in Celtic art does not itself constitute proof. Celtic Christians drew many animals and art without an interpretive key can be quite ambiguous. It is also sometimes said that ancient Celtic Christians did not speak of the Holy Spirit as a dove. Yet Celts, both ancient and modern, did and do write of the Spirit as a dove and of that we have proof. We do know the metaphor of the Holy Spirit as Wild Goose was in use about 1940 by 20th century visionary George MacLeod and /or his contemporary sources.

But that does not mean we should abandon the image. Not at all. There are good reasons why the "wild goose= Holy Spirit" metaphor, may actually be more relevant for these tumultuous times if recently coined than if it had come from ancient Celtic Christians.

Here is the link to the page where the quote is found: http://wildgoosedove.blogspot.com/2008/08/chasing-documentation_5440.html

Thanks! That's what I was looking for!

Redwolf

Redwolf · **Posted:** Sun 15 Jun 2014 2:32 pm

Saoirse wrote:

I wonder if future generations of scholars will examine this thread when studying the origin of the phrase 'Wild Goose Chase'. :twisted:

LOL!

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