I agree, Bríd, but I think that the dialects should be marked clearly so that people who can't recognise them yet can use that information to learn how to recognise them.

As for kk's comments, lenition after a preposition may be standard, but it is a solely Ulster convention within that standard. The standard says you can either eclipse or lenite but it is understood that you shouldn't mix the two willy-nilly, you should be consistent in doing one or the other. Eclipsis is the norm, presenting the other without clarification justs leads to confusion.

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

I agree - very often you find yourself confronted with 'either or' (lenition/eclipse) without any clear explanation of who uses which. What about the prepositions 'do', 'ar', 'faoi choinne + gen',' i gcomhair + gen' ? - which is what I have in the dictionary - and I thought 'ar son' meant - for the sake of, as well as - on behalf of, in return for, instead of.

True, in New Irish Grammar and in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí, concerning that one, and some other variations they just say that both rules are possible, and that "this feature may be heard in some parts of the Gaeltacht" and they never say where, there's absolutely no dialectal indication in all these standard books. While many users would like to know!

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

So here's a related question...when would you use "as" in this context?

Redwolf

You mean in the ‘thank you for XYZ’ context?

I’d say pretty much all the time, as longa as you’re not talking about Ulsterers. Using ar son here is mostly limited to Ulster.


Ar son is more common, but I’m fairly certain I’ve also heard as occasionally. Could be a regional thing (I suppose they’d be more likely to use less Ulsterish forms in South Donegal than in North Donegal, for instance), but I’m not sure.

I think in brief statements, I’ve heard more people say go raibh maith agat as sin than go raibh maith agat ar a shon sin—in fact I’m not certain if I’ve ever heard the latter.

_________________
Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.

I didn't even know that the "as" was derived from "ar son" in the first place.

I don't think they mean as being "derived from" ar son, Gumbi, only ar son being used instead of as ucht, or vice versa, in Ulster. (Or did you mean you didn't know as was derived from as ucht?)


Do you have the hard copy of FGB, Red? Meaning 5. of ucht gives quite a few examples with as ucht, most of which look replaceable with ar son.

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Myself as well. Perhaps it's a GCC thing?

Redwolf

Were you talking about native speakers or non-native speakers?

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Native speakers. Mostly in Gaoth Dobhair, but also in GCC.

_________________
Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.