Cén fáth nach bhfuil ag leanúint an focal "Ghaeltach" an riail "Leathan-Leathan / Caol-Caol"?

Why doesn't the word "Ghaeltacht" follow the rule "Broad-Broad / Slender-Slender"?

I've wanted to ask this for a while, but just figured I'd eventually figure it out, and I haven't.

Féabar

Ceist mhaith, a Fhéabair. That's a good question, Faber, and one I thought about long ago. Here's what I came up with:

I think you have to think of ae as a single broad vowel æ.

Think of the word aer. If the a and e were separate, then the e would make the r slender, but it is not. The r is broad.

In the word Gael itself, the l is broad.

Other words in which a broad vowel similarly follows ae: laethanta, contaetha, druncaera, traenach, etc.

In most cases where you find a slender consonant after ae, there will be an i inserted between the ae and the consonant: Gaeilge, vaein, druncaeir, traein, etc.

All of this indicates that ae is broad even though it looks like it ends in e.

So, even though you may have been taught that there are five vowels in Irish, ae (æ) is the "sixth vowel".

Hope that helps.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Added to what Breandán explained, in some cases there may have been an older spelling of the word in which the rule was observed.

In Scottish Gaelic, which is often more conservative in its spelling rules (though not always consistently so), Gaeltacht is Gaidhealtachd, which does observe the rule. In Irish, the old spelling of Gael was Gaedheal, which also observed the rule and was an obvious variant of the Scottish spelling. Once the internal "d" sound had been lost (from the Old Irish Góidel), the whole inner part became one big diphthong, and the modernized spelling essentially reduced it to "ae" as one diphthong/vowel, as Breandán suggested.

One might argue that, when the new spelling was adopted, an extra "e" or "i" should have been added to fix things, but the thought might have been that Gaeltacht should be treated like many other compound words or words with prefixes/suffixes, which are often allowed to violate the rule, such as the many words beginning with the prefix comh- (an example: comhlíon). The two parts may be treated as separate words, for purposes of the rule, when to make them follow the rule would result in an unwanted sound change. In comhlíon, to add an "i" to get "coimhlíon" would arguably change the pronunciation from "cuh-lee-un" to "cuh-vlee-un", possibly making it hard to understand.

In fact, that might be the very reason for not adding an "e" or "i" after the "t" in Gaeltacht just in order to follow the rule. The result of something like "Gaelteacht" would have forced an odd sound change, and even an arguable change in meaning to "Gael Coming".

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.

Hmm, you've lost me there, a Chaoimhín. I think the rule-bending for prefixes is a separate matter.

The reason there is no i or e added in Gaeltacht is that the -lt- in the middle is broad.

If anything an a or an o or a u might appear to be needed between the ae and the l to follow the broad with broad rule, but isn't because the ae is considered broad already.

Conversely, a person might think that no i is required in Gaeilge because the e is already slender but because ae is considered broad, the i is required to make the -lg- slender.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Tá cíall go leor le do fhreagra a Bhreandán. Go raibh mile maith agat.
Your answer makes a lot of sense, Brendan. Thanks a million!
(Lit: Is sense alot with your answer Brendan. That might be thousand thanks at you!)

Tá fáilte romhat, a Fhéabair!

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Tuairimí an-shuimiúl go deo, nár smaoinigh mé riamh air!



Could you explain exactly what you mean when you say the r in 'aer' is broad. I know it's broad because there's a broad vowel (æ) before it, but is there some deeper meaning I'm missing out on? Is it just a consonant is slender or broad depending on the vowel in front of it?

A Fhéabair, I always find it helpful to think of ae as a "broad é" (just as eoi is a "slender ó).

A Áine, your own name is a good example of how vowels are added to words to mark broad or slender consonants. The i in Áine is silent. It's only there so that everyone knows to pronounce the n as a slender n. If you spelt it Áne, it could get very confusing. The Á would indicate a broad n, but the e would indicate a slender n. Adding in the extra vowel clears things up. Áine is pronounced with a slender n, and we put a slender vowel on each side.

It's the same situation with Óir. You know the r is pronounced as a slender r, because it's next to a slender vowel (i). The i in Óir doesn't have any function other that. Óir is pronounced the same as Ór, but with a slender r. Does that help, or have I just confused things even more?

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Táim ag foghlaim fós. Fáilte roimh gach aon cheartúchán.

In Irish, every consonant has two sounds broad and slender. The easiest to distinguish for foreigners is the broad and slender s, broad s being a normal sibilant s /s/ and slender s being a sh sound /∫/, but essentially all consonants have this distinction, except perhaps h.

The sounds themselves are different and you have to learn to distinguish them to be able to speak Irish properly. The spelling indicates whether a given consonant is broad or slender, but it is not just the spelling, the sound itself is different.

Here are some soundfiles to show the differences in pronunciation between certain broad and slender consonants:

http://www.awyr.com/ILF/saewndfaylz/Gael_Gaeil.mp3

Gael
G(w)EY-ull
/ge:L/

Gaeil
G(w)EYL
/ge:l´/

Note that the broad l in Gael is fuller or darker; the slender l in Gaeil is lighter. This sound distinction makes the difference between the singular Gael and the plural or genitive Gaeil.

Non-native speakers (including Urban speakers) often try to fudge this distinction by adding an i sound to the slender version (Gaeil) but the i is really just a spelling convention. The real distinction should be made in the quality of the l sound itself.


http://www.awyr.com/ILF/saewndfaylz/Gae ... aeilge.mp3

Gaeltacht
G(w)EY-ull-tukht
/ge:Ltəxt/

Gaeilge
G(w)EYL-gih
/ge:l´g´ə/

Again, note the difference between the two l sounds.


http://www.awyr.com/ILF/saewndfaylz/aer_aeir.mp3

aer
AIR
/e:r/

aeir
AIRH
/e:r´/

Broad r has a single hard flap or tap. Slender r is a lighter tap and sounds buzzier.


http://www.awyr.com/ILF/saewndfaylz/%C3 ... 3%B3ir.mp3

ór
OR
/o:r/

óir
ORH
/o:r´/

Again, broad r has a single hard flap or tap. Slender r is a lighter tap and sounds buzzier.

This sound distinction between the broad and slender r makes the difference between the singular nominative (aer and ór) and the genitive (aeir and óir).

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Mick, go raibh míle as ucht d'fhreagairt, but you're overestimating me there saying 'You know the r is pronounced as a slender r' - I'm actually that thick. I needed Breandán to clear up the pronunciation bit. Go raibh míle míle maith agaibh! An-fhóinteach!